In 'Here, Right Matters,' Alexander Vindman Reflects On The Power Of Truth

In 2019, Lieutenant Colonel Alexander Vindman blew the whistle on President Donald Trump’s alleged abuse of power in the now-infamous call with the President of Ukraine. That thrust Vindman into the national spotlight.

“When I reported my concerns, my only thought was to act properly and carry out my duty,” Vindman says. “I never thought that I would be sitting here testifying in front of this committee and the American public about my actions.”

Vindman was a hero to some, a villain to others. He says he never hesitated to report the actions of the most powerful man in the world.

“That was the easiest part. That and frankly, in a lot of ways the testimony were the easiest part,” he says. “It’s the dealing with the consequences that was by far the most challenging element.”

It cost Vindman his career, but it was worth it, he says.

Today, On Point: Alexander Vindman joins us with his message for all Americans.

Guests

Lt. Colonel Alexander Vindman, former director for Eastern Europe, the Caucasus and Russia on the White House’s National Security Council under President Trump. Military fellow at the Lawfare Institute. His new book is “Here, Right Matters: An American Story.” (@AVindman)

Interview Highlights

You are one of a tiny number of people who directly listened to that call on July 25th. So I’m wondering if you could start by putting us in the room. Where did you listen to that call?

Alexander Vindman: “It’s a small Situation Room, White House Situation Room in the basement of the West Wing. There have been pictures of the more kind of glamorous room adjacent to it, the Kennedy conference room. This was kind of a smaller, more intimate space. Reserved for seemingly less important meetings.

“Although there are pictures of this particular room, there is one picture with President Barack Obama and then Secretary of State Hillary Clinton listening or observing the mission to the UN to neutralize Osama bin Laden. So in that room, there’s a panel of screens. And then there’s this big, long wooden table. And intercom in the middle. And the screens were off on this occasion, and everybody was focused on the intercom in the center of the room.”

The national security team knew what they were hoping President Trump would say on this call. … And you knew those talking points most of all. Can you tell us why?

Alexander Vindman: “Yes, because I wrote the talking points. I was responsible for managing the relationship between Ukraine and the White House. And being the synchronizer of U.S. policy for Ukraine with the White House. And this happened to be a slightly larger set of folks participating because of the import of this meeting. Usually wouldn’t necessarily have the vice president’s staff in here.

“But I had orchestrated meetings with the vice president’s national security advisor. So they had taken an interest. And everybody was generally on the same page about bringing Ukraine along on the road to integration with the West, helping them achieve prosperity through anticorruption and reform measures. And, you know, that was the the whole purpose of this phone call.”

At what point did you know that the call wasn’t going according to plan?

Alexander Vindman: “I write that, in fact, I was quite apprehensive about the call in the first place. Because even in the days before I was on again, off again, the national security advisor, John Bolton, at the time, had basically declined to recommend this call to the president. Because he had deep concerns. And when it popped onto the schedule, the president’s schedule, I learned it was as a result of Gordon Sondland, ambassador to the European Union, doing an end run. Which I’d seen before with Mick Mulvaney, the president’s chief of staff. But that’s the proximate concerns.

“Before that, there were months of unfolding troublesome, non-government related policy or non-government related activity that was impacting policy. And those were the claims by Rudolph Giuliani, and Don Jr. and a bunch of other folks about Ukraine having some information on the Biden’s, and there needing to be an investigation. And that was what came together in this phone call, where the president was asking for this. The president was apparently the driving force behind all of these.”

How did you personally react at that instant when you heard the words that were going to change your life, essentially?

Alexander Vindman: “It’s, I think, a feature of being an Army officer and being in difficult situations throughout the entirety of my career, my head did snap up. I did look around to see who else had taken note, and kind of just to quickly assess the situation. But at the same time, I went back immediately to the business of taking notes, making sure that I had an accurate transcript. In the back of my mind … I already had probably the initial thoughts of reporting this, even though I was laser focused on making sure I understood what was being said.

“I was the only person in that room that correctly had the wherewithal to understand the Ukrainian before it was translated into English and to make sure that there was no kind of mistranslations and things of that nature. So I was laser focused on what was going on. And at the same time, the wheels were spinning and I was thinking about the next steps. And how we could start to reverse the damage that was done, because in that moment I perceived a threat to our democracy and free and fair elections.

“But I also, as I mentioned in my testimony, I understood that there was a keen threat to our Ukraine policy, which isn’t about Ukraine, to be frank. It’s about U.S. national security interests. And weak Ukraine that could be subordinated and suborned, words from Zbigniew Brzezinski in his analysis of the import of Ukraine. That becomes a much greater threat if Ukraine becomes part of Russia’s orbit. … All those calculations were going through my mind in those moments.”

On knowing it was his duty to report what he heard in the meeting 

Alexander Vindman: “It’s a very, very small staff on the National Security Council. And what you have is you have a single person responsible for a group of countries. And I was that official responsible for the relationship between the U.S. and Ukraine. So I knew immediately it was my responsibility to take whatever action I thought was appropriate. That’s always been the case. That’s always the case with regards to any policy.

“But in that moment, I also judged that either the other officials in that room were honorable detainees that the obligation didn’t fall squarely on them. Or, they were political actors that either missed what was going on. Because, to be, I guess, frank, but harsh, they were not necessarily sophisticated actors that picked up on all the nuance. Or, they saw some merit in not reporting and preserving their own position, this sense of careerism. So all of that weighed in on me. But I didn’t think about it too deeply. I frankly just knew that it was my responsibility to take action.”

On why the call is considered quid pro quo

Alexander Vindman: “So the whole idea that the president was trying to advance was in exchange for an investigation into the Bidens and wrongdoing. And wrongdoing that didn’t exist, frankly. I did significant due diligence to find out if there were any merit to these accusations or these narratives that were being spun out by Giuliani. None. I talked to the people that were much, much more capable and had a deeper knowledge within the intelligence community, within the State Department, at the embassy.

“And there was no merit to it. So I then proceeded on the assumption that there was another objective in mind, it wasn’t good governance. This wasn’t going through an established channel where countries would pass information on potentially criminal wrongdoing, there is actually an established procedure for that. It wasn’t that either.

“So the objective here was basically a pressure campaign against the Ukrainian government, which was beleaguered and besieged by Russia. … Russia is still waging war on Ukraine. And the simple objective here was to exchange the announcement of an investigation for a White House visit and the ultimate release of 400 million dollars in security assistance that Ukraine desperately needed. That is textbook definition.”

Book Excerpt

The following is an excerpt from the book HERE, RIGHT MATTERS by Alexander Vindman. Copyright © 2021 by Alexander Vindman. Published with permission by Harper, an imprint of HarperCollins Publishers.

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